Financial Affinity Planning

- The six topics that we're gonna be discussing today, are overall financial planning, as I said earlier, the better. We're gonna be discussing some geographic considerations. We'll talk about Medicare and Social Security, and decisions that need to be made as far as those two programs. What I call walking away from work, when you're leaving your group, or leaving your employment status. What important financial considerations need to be made at that time. We'll talk about some tax implications that many of you know about, but I'm sure that younger people have no idea of a lot of these tax implications. And lastly, we'll close out with Nexus topics, having to do with wellness and alternative jobs. There are groups within our section that are expert in those areas, but a lot of financial material blends into those areas. So with that said, I'm gonna pass the baton to Mark, and he's gonna discuss, basically financial planning, earlier the better. Mark, go ahead and if you want me to advance the slides, just let me know.

- Okay, perfect, so let me start this, by talking a little bit about retirement. We all say we want to retire, but when I get together with a bunch of my colleagues and when I ask them when they're going to retire, many of them said, "I'm gonna die here in the hospital seeing patients." Another one said, "You're gonna have to wheel me outta here, because I'm not leaving on my own." And as we all age, what happens is it gets to a point, where we find that we wished we had retired sooner. So what makes emergency physicians, and physicians in general, more resistant to retirement? And that's really why this section came about. We wanna remain relevant. We wanna be able to retire on our own terms. We want to be able to live the way we like to live, during our retirement. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about that financial piece of what it takes to retire. When you decide to retire, it's up to you, but I wanna say one word of wisdom. Age 75 comes whether you like it or not. And at age 75, you're physiologically declining, whether you like it or not. So do you wanna retire before you're 75? Or do you want to retire when you're physiologically declining? So let's talk a little bit more about retirement, and a little bit about developing the plan. Now I have, during my career, I've had some healthcare issues. And during my healthcare issues, I decided that I needed help getting through them. So I sought professional help. What I want all of you to consider is really seeking professional help when it comes to retirement planning. Next slide, Jeff, if you could. So in retirement planning, what I found the easiest to do, after talking to many people, is deciding how much money I need. But that by itself is not an easy task. Right now I know what my monthly income is. I know what I spend. How much of that do I want to continue to spend? How much more do I wanna spend on vacation, and lifestyle and that type of thing? So I found it very helpful to develop buckets, different buckets of finances, of money, that I needed to live on, that I wanted to live on, that was part of my retirement. One was lifestyle, how much money do I need, just for day-to-day lifestyle stuff? But I also wanted to travel more. So how much money do I need for travel? Is it 20,000 a year, is it 40? Do you want to travel around the world? Do you want to take one real big trip when you retire? A flight around the world over 20, 40, 60 days? What do you need at home just to maintain your house and where you wanna live? What kind of car do you want to have? Medical expenses are a lot different than I thought they were. The more money you have, the more expensive it is. Now, I'm not lucky enough to have grandkids, but if I did have grandkids, my boys just don't want to get married, I don't get it. But if I wanted to have grandkids, how much do I wanna spend on them? And then there's taxes. So in this scenario, let's look at if this were me, how much money do I need a year today, 2023, 2024. And if I put this together with some of the numbers that I have in front of you, I need $275,000 a year. Now maybe this is like you, maybe it's very different. Maybe it's like me, it constantly changes honestly. But your monthly income required, is your monthly retirement expenses, minus your retirement income from other sources. So let's go to the next slide, and see what some of those other sources are. Now, right now we would get Social Security. I don't know what the future shows. If you are near the top of the Social Security scale, it may be $4,400 a month, it may be a little bit more. It goes up with cost of living, so it's 50 plus thousand a year. A pension, I left my retirement, most of my work at St. Joe's, and I was lucky enough to get a standard, old fashioned pension there. Gives me $36,000 a year. Now what's interesting, Social Security goes up each year. My pension does not change. I also have some passive income investments that are going to contribute on a monthly basis for me. And I decided to continue to work, and do odd jobs, do some consulting. I decided not to do any clinical work. So when I add all this up for my retirement planning, I have $174,000 a year, that will come in for this year, 2023, 2024. So this all has to be adjusted for cost of living, and I'm gonna talk about that in a moment. So now I have a shortfall of about a $100,000, for my 275,000 that I thought I needed. And I'm only bringing in passively 175,000. So let's look at the 4% rule, next slide please. So the 4% rule really says that if I have, and you'll see variations of this, if I have investments in stock, and we've seen a couple crazy years with the stock market, and we actually see it recovering right now, possibly, hopefully it's real. But if I had a 50/50 portfolio, 50% stocks, equities, and 50% bonds, and I want my retirement to last 30 years. Now this is important, because if you wanna retire when you're 40, 30 years only takes you to 70, you have more years after that. But I'm retiring at 69, so 30 years is probably a good number for me. There was some discussion early in the pandemic, and early with inflation that it's really a 3.3% rule, but now everything's been readjusted back to a 4%. And what this means is if I take 4% out of my portfolio each year, starting this year at 4%, and then adjust it for inflation each and every year, then I will be able to live 30 years and not exhaust my money. And if I do better than that, then I have money that becomes part of what I give my grandchildren and others. So in this scenario, I was $100,000 short. And if we look at the bar graph, and I hope you can see this, but on the bottom of the bar graph it says, how much money you can take out the first year, and adjusted for inflation each and every year. And go to the next slide, Jeff, please. And you'll see that I need $100,000. So it says, that means I need $2.5 million invested in a 50/50 portfolio. And you can see how this works. If I need 125,000 a year over and above my passive income, what that would mean...

- Mark, sorry to interrupt. Can you put it in presentation mode rather than in multiple slide mode? 'cause then it would be a little bit bigger, a little bit hard to see.

- [Jeff] Let me see.

- Next one, next one, next one, there.

- [Speaker] Just hit F5, it's quicker.

- That's true. Anyway, so you can really get a sense of how much you need. If you think you need 150,000 this year, and adjust it for inflation next year, you need 3.75 million. A lot of people who are advising physicians at this point in time are really saying they need between three and $5 million, depending on your passive income. But you have to decide that, I met with one of my sons the other day, and I was going over this with him, and he said, "I'll never do that. I'll never have that much money." So then the question comes in, if you're looking at your children, how much do you need, as part of what you're going to leave your kids and your grandchildren? That's a personal decision. The first decision is, do you have enough so that you don't outlive your retirement plans? Then do you have enough for your grandchildren, their college, or whatever you want. This only gives you a ballpark. Everybody invests differently. Everybody has their plans in retirement that's a little bit different. I am not at all going into it, but another time, I would love to talk about other types of investing, angel investing and investing in different businesses, and corporations and see how that plays into your retirement plans. But that's for another time. In the meantime, I think I addressed many of the issues that were important for me to address in these slides tonight. And I want to turn it over to, Fred Dennis, I think is next to pick up the next slide.

- Thanks Mark, and in order to maintain cohesion here, we're gonna take questions at the end. I know many of you will have questions, so if you can just reserve those to the end. Fred, take it away.

- Thanks. So the title of this is to spur your thinking in terms of geography for retirement. Also, often when I'm reading through my "ARC Journals," and the rest of it, they talk about taxes. Move to Florida, move to Texas, go to some rural area where the cost of living is low, where you can buy a mansion for $250,000, whatever. I think that that's important obviously, because again, with Mark's calculations, how many of us are going to have $7.5 million to take our 4% out from? However, what I've found, and I shared this in in Philadelphia, and I will spare you going into intimate details, but my wife had a very severe medical episode in March. We're still trying to search through, and put together the pieces of it. But I am so thankful that we live in a medical mecca where there's an access, to not just quality healthcare, but high level healthcare. And I would suggest that anyone who's thinking of retirement should make sure that they're within commuting distance of ideally, a large medical facility or ideally an academic center, because medical care these days is so fragmented, but there's so much that we can offer people. However, you're going to probably end up being the one coordinating it or it's gonna be coordinated around you. So I think that, again, the geography definitely matters. Rural is great. The white picket fence, being able to walk to the grocery store, knowing the names of everybody on your street, those all contribute to your longevity. But so does being close to a major academic center. Health insurance network. Again, same idea. Let's go to the next slide. I think we touch on that again, I'm gonna go a little bit out of sequence here, to talk about the last point here. Medicare Advantage plans. Again, I am personally so thankful that I didn't take advantage of Medicare Advantage. Medicare Advantage for those of you who haven't encountered it, and I'm sure all of the people, the names that I see on this slide, have probably thought through this. Medicare Advantage is essentially, a new insurance vehicle that has come along and taken Medicare by storm. It's basically Medicare with an HMO overlay. And we all know what HMO means. It means you have to ask for permission. Mother, may I get the care I need? Oh, I'm sorry that doctor is not in network, and I'm in the catbird seat here. I was lucky enough to get into an administrative job, where I do utilization management. So I'm a gatekeeper for Medicare Advantage plans. And although the federal government says that you shouldn't lose any of your Medicare medical opportunities, by joining a Medicare Advantage plan, virtually every large medical plan in the country is getting sued by the federal government for restricting care, for setting up various roadblocks to getting the same advantages for Medicare Advantage, as you do for Medicare. On the other hand, it's cheaper, and you can in fact get some extra money back. You can get dental and you can get vision coverage. So it is definitely something worth looking into, especially if you don't have the financial means to pay out of pocket or you're lucky enough to be in a Medicare Advantage plan area where there is great coverage. So going back to the first point, choosing the age to receive Social Security benefits, this is something that all of us who have reached that stage have had to deal with. Social Security, you can take between 62 and 70. And I think, Mark, you touched on it, the longer that you can hold off on taking Social Security, the more money you get. And one of the considerations though has to be, what is your health status? How long are you going to live? If you're in quite good health, when you hit 62, then you probably should be thinking about delaying taking Social Security benefits. Because each year the amount that you can claim goes up more than cost of living. Once you lock in your Social Security benefits, then you're basically stuck with whatever it is, three to 4% a year increase in your Social Security benefits. So you could probably, I think Mark, the number you used was 4,400. You could probably be stuck at a much lower number, almost half of that if you had taken it at 72. So I mean, sorry, yes, at 62. Once you start taking your Social Security benefits, typically you are enrolled in Medicare. Medicare A and B. I keep getting them confused. I believe A is hospital and B is medical. And the amount that you're gonna get in Social Security is gonna be decreased by the cost of your Medicare B part. It's gonna be extracted from your Social Security. So that surprises a lot of people. Also, you have to be aware, although I think you'll talk about it later in taxes, is that you can be taxed on your Social Security benefits too. So that's a consideration if you're working, is do you really want to be at the top end of the tax bracket, to be getting your Social Security benefits? In terms of how long are you going to live, I think we're going to see some tremendous advances in longevity over the next decade to two decades. Some of the futurists are saying the first person to live to 400 is alive already. I don't know that that's true, but perhaps 200. When I'm talking to younger doctors about longevity, what I say is if the average age of the people in the room is 40, count on living to a hundred, certainly count on living to 90, and do your planning around that, in terms of how much income you're going to have, but also your Social Security benefits and also Medicare. Next slide, please. I think that this point, we were going to toss it back to you, Jeff, to lead a discussion, walking away from work. I think we all have at some point walked away from work, even in an early stage in our career. But these are certainly very important considerations, which I suspect almost none of us, and certainly I didn't think about, when I first signed my first contract.

- Thanks, Fred. Great presentation. I'm gonna be quick on this, because each one of these bullets you could talk forever. So I'm just gonna be quick, and roll through the next few slides, and then open it up for discussion. When you're retiring from your clinical work, you're leaving your group, you're leaving your employment, you'll have an issue on your malpractice tail. And of course this needs to be put in writing, well before you leave. So you wanna make sure that once you leave the group, that you still have adequate malpractice for claims that will be coming down the pike, possibly affecting you over the next few years after you retire. Then for those people who are members of groups for those doctors, there's the accounts receivable. Depending upon the structure of your group, you may or may not be eligible to receive a portion of that accounts receivable. And that depends upon the termination provisions in your contract. Needs to be reviewed by yourself, and a financial planner, probably. Group contract clauses, as far as equity. If you have equity in your group, how is that paid out? Is it paid out? Again, you wanna probably get some professional, legal type help on that issue. And then last, health savings accounts. I'm not really an expert on this, but some folks may want to consider setting up an HSA to handle some tax-free implications of the out-of-pocket expenses. Now as far as taxes, both Mark and Fred have mentioned some of these and it's pretty complicated, and I'm not certainly a tax attorney, so I just will run through these. Taxable income will go down, but maybe not dramatically. It depends whether you have an alternative source of employment. Importantly, deductions that you may have taken during your years of clinical practice may have a diminished importance after your taxable income drops. And that's again very dependent upon the individual, and how much income they have coming in. But if you've spent a lot of effort and possibly expense building up these various different types of deductions, they may not be important, or as important if your revenue drops dramatically, which it usually does. Issues of pension conversion, and then the traditional IRA versus the Roth IRA, most of you know that a Roth IRA, and most physicians are in IRAs, a Roth IRA has tax-free income that it generates and there's no capital gains taxes when you go to sell a Roth IRA security. But you have to pay an initial large sum of taxes if you're converting a traditional IRA into a Roth IRA. So that's something you really need expert advice, to determine if a Roth IRA is correct for you. And again, a lot of these points don't make a difference to the people on the Zoom call. These decisions, some of them need to be made, especially the pensions and the IRAs. They need to be made years before you're even considering retirement or should be. And then the last slide I have is what I call Nexus topics. I'm not a Doctor Phil, but I just wanted to make a point that early career attention, and I'm talking about really when you start your career, that could have a massive implication to your financial health when you retire, especially physical. Have you kept in good shape? Have you had an exercise regimen that you've kept on? That's probably one of the more important aspects to financial health when you're considering retirement and it needs to be started early. Relationship health, definitely, I'm not a Doctor Phil here, but obviously the financial health of someone who retires and has had four marriages is probably not as good as one who has had just one marriage, or an equivalent to that. Lastly, the development of a nonclinical skillset. Again, that's more in the area of the alternative employment group within our section, but I always advise young physicians to start almost immediately developing some nonclinical skillset, whether it's quality assurance, billing, administrative, something that you could earn money on within your group, doing those tasks but also gradually increase that skillset, and possibly have it become your dominant source of income towards the end of your clinical employment. But also setting you up for a alternative employment when you finish your clinical work. So that is the presentation. Let me stop the share.

- Jeff, I think that there is a world of knowledge that we can share from this screen here, and before we stop the recording, I think we should entertain both questions, or any particular comments that anybody has, to add to the slides that you just did, because I see people here that have been clinically retired for quite a while and have actually lived it, and others that have recently made the decisions, maybe have been some people that are about ready to make those. If you wanna hit your raise the hand, we'll try to call on people in order. I'm gonna start off, I'm gonna take ownership of two things to mention. One is I'm blessed to be able to snowbird. I have two homes, one north, one south, but I can't be in a Medicare Advantage plan that's locked into a network that's tied geographically to a group of physicians. So I couldn't do a Medicare Advantage, or half the year I would be out of network for sure. The only other thing I'd add into some of the things to consider is that I started at a pretty young age, putting money into a health savings account, because now that I am retired I have to pay for my Medicare, I have to pay for my prescription plan, and things like that come through that. And I can use my health savings account to pay for those monthly payments in addition to all the other various and sundry expenses that I get. So a health savings account really turned out to work well for me, but I planned it long ago. Jim, I see your hand went up.

- Yep.

- On mute though. Either that or I need to get my hearing tested again.

- Oh, I'm sorry. All right. Didn't hit the right button there. Sorry, my age is showing. I wanna second 100% what you and Fred said about Medicare disadvantage. That's one of the biggest scams going on and you're basically trading choice and flexibility for a lower premium, which is what is getting the majority of Americans in trouble. They buy the cheapest insurance they can, meaning the the policies with the smallest premiums, and then they find out when they get sick, they really need it. So kudos to Fred and you for bringing up the disadvantages of Medicare disadvantage. Thanks.

- Mark, I saw your hand go up next.

- [Mark] A couple of comments. Number one, I think the most important point you made, whatever you do, do it ahead of time and not after time. Also, the other thing to think about, is some of us still work, may not be the smartest people, but we still work. So I am incorporated and my corporation pays my Medicare and all my medical expenses by law. So it's a great pre-tax amount of money, and it really helps out. And the way that my corporation is structured, my wife is a part-time employee, so her component of it gets paid too. And again, I think important point, you may think about this ahead of time, I meant many years I was trading stocks, and I was gonna become the richest man in the world with all these amazing first time in stocks and all I did was lose money, and then I got a good financial planner. That's the next thing I'd recommend. Somebody, one, you trust, somebody that is well structured, whatever company he works for in the sense of, I pay a percent. I trade all I trade, I don't trade all I trade, it's all in managed accounts. I see a percent return. I can look at everything if I want or if I'm happy, and his job is to keep me happy. So those are just a couple suggestions. And then again, as I said, I like the fact I can still work and the point I do, and some of us do high risk sports Phil, and that's probably what's gonna kill me. I kept saying a jealous husband, but my wife said that was fantasy.

- So Mark, you mentioned one thing, and that I had a best friend, that was my financial planner for years. Did a great job, but he retired the same time I retired. So you mentioned that's involved with a good corporation that can carry on after they retire, as far as the individual goes.

- [Mark] And just a quick comment back to that. Choose somebody who's enough years younger than you are, that they're gonna be around at least long enough to establish a principle and a process. My financial guy's also a friend now, we drive race cars together, and do really lots of stupid things but he really has done a good job. And the other thing is don't forget your kids, grandkids, et cetera. And some of 'em may not need all that much money. If they don't, your inheritance doesn't have to be everybody gets 25 or 50 or 30 or whatever. You can proportion how the money goes, and how it's structured. No one forces you to do what you don't wanna do. But get advice from somebody who knows what they're doing when they do it.

- Mark, I saw your hand go up next.

- Yeah this is such a great group, and listening to and reading the chat, all the different comments. I think we start more similarly in our careers, our goals to become a physician then an emergency physician, is pretty much of a straight line. Very little decisions have to be made, except where you're gonna do a residency, and where you're gonna practice. But I want to throw this idea out there. Retirement is much more complex, and what we do when we leave the bedside, is much more diverse. So our plans to go to med school, I think were much easier, and much more straight line. But our plans now to retire, require some very big professional help. And I appreciate the comments about a financial planner. Financial planning is an art, and a science unto itself, very different than medicine. And I really think there's nothing more valuable than having the right financial planner who understands you, your family and more importantly your grandkids, and where you want your legacy to go and how to plan for it. It's not just 4%, and that discussion, it's not just when do you want to start taking your Social Security, it's really how do you want to plan your legacy? So I strongly recommend that. All our discussions here are personal stories, which are helpful, but the financial planner will help solidify that into what you really need to make your story real.

- Pam, I think I saw you trying to put in something. It's good to see you.

- Hi. Thank you. I can't find the hand. The computer doesn't want me speaking. I wanted to make a couple of comments.

- But we do, Pam. We want to hear you speak.

- Thank you. I wanna confirm that comment about the Medicare Advantage, and Medicare Advantage may be great, if everything goes the way you expect the world to go. But believe me, you need your plan B, and we've found that we've been very grateful that we did not go that route. There is a formula that can tell you when to take your Social Security based upon the actuarial data of when you would be expected to die based upon your own personal profile. I want to mention a couple of other things. Number one, I think that when you're talking these kind of talks, we also need to be talking about creating family trusts, and other issues that you're going to deal with, if you do wish to leave money to people. Having been through this over the course of my lifetime, and finalize those things, literally the day Cork went into hospice. I think those are important things to talk about. The second thing is, is I started investment accounts for retirement, for my grandchildren the day they were born. Tomorrow we have a meeting with three of my grandchildren and our financial advisor to help them with their retirement accounts. They are 14, 19 and 21. The 24-year-old and the 30-year-old take care of their own accounts. But I think it's important that we pass on perhaps not our money, although I started each of them out with $2,000, because I did that because Wendy Lucid gave that to Todd Taylor one Christmas and changed him from a pauper to a multimillionaire. Not that my grandchildren are gonna do that, but we can always hope. So I think that we might not wanna leave them the money in the sense of a will, but in the sense of reasonable planning for their future. And I think the important thing about the rural, or where you are, I will share with you, that I live two and a half hours from the emergency department that we go to. And I have driven that road, which is back roads through, it's ironically enough four lane highways in Virginia, but it's back roads. Nobody on the road at two o'clock in the morning, the night my husband had his LAD occlusion and we got to the emergency department about 30 minutes before it happened. He survived that. I knew that I could have been transporting a dead body across state lines 'cause it's across state lines for us. But I made the decision, and we made the decision that we wanted the rural life, that we'd lived in Maine, and that's how we've lived our retirement. So I think as you said, these are personal decisions, and much as it would be nice to have that care close, it has worked for us. And I think maybe what we all ought to do is write down all of these things so that we can share them with our younger colleagues. 'Cause it's not us, as you say, it's not us. We've either made the decisions or not, and we need to move on from there, because it's too late for us. If you're trying to invest now for your future, it isn't gonna work guys. And I think the final thing I would say, is I'm spending my money, I'm having a good time. I am supporting education with my grandchildren. I'm seeing to it that they get for Christmas what they wanted or whatever it is they needed. Mostly education right now has been the big issue. But I've told them if my money runs out, they're gonna support me. And I'm just, I've gotten to a point where, you know what? I'm not worrying about it. It's gonna happen. I feel comfortable. I feel comfortable. I can live on a hell of a lot less if I have to. And I've made it clear that we'll spend it today, if we need to and worry about tomorrow. WE've worried. We've taken care of it. I have that nut. From '79 on, I saved as much as you were allowed every year, managed my own pension. And so I think that there comes a time, when you just finally have to say, "Wait a minute, I can't take it to my grave." My husband didn't take it to his grave. His grandfather couldn't take it to his grave. So let's just go ahead and have some fun, and it's great to see you all by the way.

- Oh, it's fabulous. We should probably give Jeff, Mark, and Fred final comments as well as kudos, for putting this together. So in the order, Jeff, do you have any other final comments?

- Just that some of the issues that have been brought up by the folks who discussed things weren't on our list, but listening to it, they're very important. So maybe in the future we'll think of some way of coalescing the top 10, if you will, and maybe get some handout for members who are younger than us, for them to consider these these issues.

- Okay, Mark.

- Many of you know, I ended my career doing a lot of palliative medicine and all kidding aside, as we talked a little bit about end of life in the beginning of this call, there is a lot of discussion there. So if we're planning this conversation for younger learners, let's plan a harder conversation for all of us. This is an important time that we all help guide ourselves to the next stage or the stages that are in front of us, not only for us, but for our families. I see this section just growing in interest by all age groups in emergency medicine. And I recently gave a lecture to Cooper University Hospital for everybody but emergency physicians. It was packed with OBGYN, and internal medicine all wanting to talk, and hear more about retirement. So this isn't isolated just to us, this is all of the house of medicine, but this conversation, this section is about us. So let's make it meaningful. And I really appreciate everybody more than you can imagine.

- And Fred, I definitely wanna have a chance to pick from underneath your tree, but before I do that, I wanna pick your brain for final comments.

- Well, I feel like the guy with the broom who's following the elephant here, and that I've picked up some very interesting thoughts from everybody here. So I'm just going to, just off the top of my head a couple. One is, Pam, you touched on trust. I think everyone on this call, if you don't have a trust, a living trust, you need to get one. You need to avoid probate, you need to avoid paying lawyers tons of money. You need to avoid your family fighting over your income, and you need to avoid publication of your estate. You can also set it up as we've done, so that our daughter as she grew older, was able, if we had passed on, to be able to access different amounts of money, less when she was more financially irresponsible, more now and having some in case her marriage doesn't go well. Jeff, you talked about alternative jobs. I call those dirty jobs. What are the things in the emergency that nobody else wants to do? It's usually has to do with things like billing and finances, but without that your commodities compete on the basis of price, and there will always be some younger doc that will be willing to work for less money than you are. And so when in seven or eight years, I tell the residents, in seven or eight years when you go, and you say, "I haven't had a raise in X years," they say "We can hire somebody for less than you're getting right now. Shut up kid. And just mind your manners." And then the last one, is that probably the most valuable thing that I learned from our financial planner, was to have some money carved out every month and put into a savings account, or savings investment account that we weren't going to touch. And that's why at this point I can retire, because I never saw that money. And Einstein is quoted as saying, "The greatest force in the universe is compound interest." So these are some of the things that have sustained me. But what's most important and sustained me is the friendship of the people on this call and similar people. I just am so thankful that at this stage of the game that I have encountered such a great group of people as yourselves who have been so dedicated to giving. It just makes me feel warm inside to know you.

- I still see some other hands up. Gonna get to you in a second Glenn, I just wanna point out there's some amazing stuff going on in the chat, and unfortunately, I'm not sure that shows up in the recording. Things like free gifting, tax free to your family members. The one piece of advice I always make to younger colleagues who are getting married is always be sure, that as far as wills, et cetera, that you're worth more alive than dead. But anyway, Glenn, you had your hand up too.

- Just in addition to your financial advisor can decide to retire when you really want him the most, Is that we've just had the experience of having our family doc who really knows us terribly well, and knows what we want announce his retirement. And it really is important when you're planning, to figure out when your family physician, when the person who's most coordinating your care is gonna retire. 'Cause it's very scary to know you're gonna outlive the person who knows what you want, and knows what you really need is medical care. So it is another piece of wellness to have your doc know who you are. Admittedly we've all been docs for a whole bunch of people as family docs. We've all been that over the years. But it's really important to have someone who knows you, especially now at this age, and knows what your wants and desires really are. The living will document's fine, but it's nice to have a doc who really understands who you are and what you are.

- Great point, Glenn. I have lots of retired physician friends who can tell me the state of the art 10 years ago. But if I really need medical care, I want somebody that's on top of it now and will be in 10 years.